67 replies to this topic

[Listless Nomad]

I'm sorry if this has been debated to death - but I searched for anything with Ives in the name and couldn't find anything.

I'm pretty good on lore, though not nearly as a lot of you guys - but it was my understanding that Candace Liao seceded from the Capellan Confederation and allied with the Federated Commonwealth. Yet according to the official map provided by MWO, they are a part of the Capellan Confederation still - listed similarly to a military distract like Pesht in the DC.

http://img.mwomercs....here%203048.png

Now I understand that they are a small Faction, and perhaps not worthy of having their own forum (though I'd love it - if only to stir up animosity with the cappies) - but at the very least they should be a part of the Fed Com more than the Capellan Confed. I'd like their gunners on my side rather than the enemy's when it comes down to it - and I know that there are some loyal Ivorians out there who would want to strike back against the Confederation. Will St. Ives be separate - or will it remain a part of the Capellan Confederation for the game?

Also please give them their own forum to stir up trouble in.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 23 January 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I think a number of people have commented on this and would back an independant St Ives.

[Omigir]

the map is alos IS 3048. so when did they split?

[Listless Nomad]

According to Sarna - it was in 3029.

http://www.sarna.net...t._Ives_Compact

Also - it's listed on that map as the St. Ives Compact. There is even a border around it - but its still counted as the Capellan Territory.

Nik Van Rhijn, on 23 January 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

I think a number of people have commented on this and would back an independant St Ives.

I'm sure it has - but not in a dedicated thread (that I could find). Does anyone know the dev's opinion on this - or what they intend to do? They gave the FRR their own forum - apparently after some debate so why not St. Ives?

Edited by Listless Nomad, 23 January 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[DarkTreader]

Yeah, St. Ives broke away from the CC when Justin Xiang finished up his secret agent routine and got off of Sian with himself, Candace Liao, and his partner Alex (last name escapes me). All courtesy of the Davion Destruction Service.

[Felbombling]

My thinking on this topic is that, due to overall size of the Compact at the height of its power, it was considered too small to form a playable faction. The FRR is probably lucky to have itself in this position, to be honest... and it is only about four times larger than the St. Ives Compact. It could prove fun, though, if someone decides to play Cappie, get a group together and then attack their own Cap buddies. "Free St.Ives!"

[Listless Nomad]

StaggerCheck, on 23 January 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

My thinking on this topic is that, due to overall size of the Compact at the height of its power, it was considered too small to form a playable faction. The FRR is probably lucky to have itself in this position, to be honest... and it is only about four times larger than the St. Ives Compact. It could prove fun, though, if someone decides to play Cappie, get a group together and then attack their own Cap buddies. "Free St.Ives!"

I would agree that would be a fun tactic. My concern - and the reason I'm bringing it up in this fashion with yet another poll - is that - if they are considered Capellan, the game may prevent them from attacking one another. Depending on how matchmaking works - the game may force you to join on your House's side no matter what - and those loyal to St. Ives may have no choice but to fight with the Capellans. I'm just curious to see if there are enough players on this board who associate with St. Ives to make their own team. Perhaps current Davion or Capellan players might chose instead to be associated with St. Ives - and had to make a choice they didn't like. I could be wrong - but the more diversity in the game - the better in my opinion.

[Damocles]

How long do you expect St.Ives to last between a vengeful Capcon and an opportunistic House Davion?

And If you were just puppetized Davion then what is the point?

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

If the St. Ives rebellion is allowed then I bet you will see the Skye March try to same thing......

[Ralinos]

I feel like if you have the St. Ives Compact being separate, what about Isle of Skye, Periphery, Andurien, or Tikonov? There needs to be a decent line, so we don't have 50 factions.

Though it would be interesting to have a Davion faction that are the St. Ives Separatists.

[Dihm]

From an RP perspective, I'm all for St. Ives and Skye being free.

From a gameplay perspective... very small factions, likely a very small player base, and we already have 6 factions (plus more with the Clans coming, assuming they are opened to players). Seems like it would split things more than is prudent.

[SMDMadCow]

I think the devs are missing a big plot hook for Liao players. The CapCon invades St Ives in 3060 to reintigrate it, if St Ives is already a part of the CapCon now in 3049, then that whole story line goes to waste in game. Thats why I think that if St Ives doesnt get to be a faction, then it should at least be part of the FedCom. It makes sense because it separated from the CapCon and had bad relations with them, being pro Davion, and it would give the Liao players something to look foward too or at least something to achieve later in the game.

[Thorn Hallis]

Do I smell fear? Does this Davion agent try to stir up some kind of rebellion in the St.Ives Communality in hopes to turn the attention of the Confederation away from Tikonov, Sarna, Chesterton and Liao?

[DEVASTATOR]

Seperatist!

[Strum Wealh]

Ralinos, on 23 January 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

I feel like if you have the St. Ives Compact being separate, what about Isle of Skye, Periphery, Andurien, or Tikonov? There needs to be a decent line, so we don't have 50 factions.

Though it would be interesting to have a Davion faction that are the St. Ives Separatists.

From the Sarna article on the Inner Sphere:

Quote

Colonization of the Inner Sphere began in 2108, when the Terran Alliance launched the first manned faster-than-light mission aboard the TAS Pathfinder. Between 2108 and 2235, the Terran Alliance colonized and ruled the first centralized interstellar government in human history, controlling more than 600 colonies within 120 light years of Terra. However, corruption and logistics made it impossible to adequately govern such a large body. Private concerns "illegally" funded exploration and colonization of Inner Sphere worlds, as well as worlds located in the Periphery and the Deep Periphery. Despite the best efforts of the Terran Alliance to end "blockaderunning", by the end of the Outer Reaches Rebellion, the Terran Alliance was declining.
From c. A.D. 2300 to 2787, the Inner Sphere was divided into five "pie wedges" around a central, roughly circular core:

The Free Worlds League, established 2271
Rulers: House Marik
The Federated Suns, established 2317
Rulers: House Davion
The Draconis Combine, established 2319
Rulers: House Kurita
The Lyran Commonwealth, established 2340
Rulers: House Steiner
The Capellan Confederation, established 2367
Rulers: House Liao

The central Terran Hegemony, established 2315
Rulers: House Cameron

-----

Despite hundreds of billions of deaths, the first three Succession Wars resulted in little change to the map after the First Succession War divided the Terran Hegemony between the five Successor States.

The brief Fourth Succession War brought a dramatic change when the Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns, on opposite sides of the Sphere, united at the expense of the other Successor States' territories. A number of minor nations appeared in the Inner Sphere during or shortly after the Fourth Succession War, at the expense of the Draconis Combine, the Free Worlds League and the Capellan Confederation.

The Tikonov Free Republic, 3028-3031
The St. Ives Compact, 3029-3063
The Free Rasalhague Republic, 3034-3103
The Duchy of Andurien, 3030-3040

The Terran Hegemony, along with House Cameron, ceased to exist with the fall of the Star League (in 2767).
The Tikonov Free Republic ceased to exist in 3031.
The Duchy of Andurien ceased to exist in 3040.

Thus, the remaining powers of the Inner Sphere at this point in the timeline (3049) are the five Great Houses and their respective nations, the FRR, St. Ives, and ComStar (the latter-most being presumably reserved for the Devs and Mods).

(The Sarna page on Skye indicates that it remained a Lyran world until joining the Republic of the Sphere, so the Isle of Skye was never an independent nation.)

Thus, our "decent line" is defined...

Your thoughts?

----------

As a side note, it might be interesting to include the worlds of some of the Periphery nations as settings... and perhaps only the major Periphery powers as eventual playable factions?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 23 January 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Listless Nomad]

You all have raised fairly valid points - I'll try to address them individually:

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, on 23 January 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

If the St. Ives rebellion is allowed then I bet you will see the Skye March try to same thing......

The difference here is that the St. Ives Compact achieved independence several years before MWO takes place, and had more than a handful of worlds under it's control. The Skye separatists never controlled much of anything - and their biggest uprising came in 3056 - 7 years in the future.

Ralinos, on 23 January 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

I feel like if you have the St. Ives Compact being separate, what about Isle of Skye, Periphery, Andurien, or Tikonov? There needs to be a decent line, so we don't have 50 factions.

Though it would be interesting to have a Davion faction that are the St. Ives Separatists.

Once again Isle of Skye was not a separate body - successfully - ever. Ives was independent from 3029-3063ish. Thats a decent chuck of time. As for the periphery - they never played a huge roll on IS politics like the St. Ives compact did - and they weren't sandwiched between two huge powers. The Andurian Secession Crisis occurred years before the timeline of this game, and never was a separate entity again. And finally Tikonov was one planet. The St. Ives Compact is not a simple regional rebellion as were common in BT. It was essentially a small separate nation - that was independent for the entirety of this game's timeline.

Dihm, on 23 January 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

From an RP perspective, I'm all for St. Ives and Skye being free.

From a gameplay perspective... very small factions, likely a very small player base, and we already have 6 factions (plus more with the Clans coming, assuming they are opened to players). Seems like it would split things more than is prudent.

Probably - but I fail to see why splitting would be a terrible thing - especially if they already have such a small power base. The St. Ives compact was unique compared to other examples as it was more than a handful of worlds - had a military - and was closely allied with the FedCom. At the least it shouldn't be Capellan. That just makes no sense.

SMDMadCow, on 23 January 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

I think the devs are missing a big plot hook for Liao players. The CapCon invades St Ives in 3060 to reintigrate it, if St Ives is already a part of the CapCon now in 3049, then that whole story line goes to waste in game. Thats why I think that if St Ives doesnt get to be a faction, then it should at least be part of the FedCom. It makes sense because it separated from the CapCon and had bad relations with them, being pro Davion, and it would give the Liao players something to look foward too or at least something to achieve later in the game.

Exactly - at least make it FedCom allied. Give the poor Capellans something to strive for. People would be able to get into their faction more if they had things to look forward to. Why deny them the opportunity to try to take St. Ives back.

Thorn Hallis, on 23 January 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Do I smell fear? Does this Davion agent try to stir up some kind of rebellion in the St.Ives Communality in hopes to turn the attention of the Confederation away from Tikonov, Sarna, Chesterton and Liao?

Do I smell the fear that you couldn't take a few measly planets back and need to have them on your team to start with?

Damocles, on 23 January 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

How long do you expect St.Ives to last between a vengeful Capcon and an opportunistic House Davion?

And If you were just puppetized Davion then what is the point?

First off we are the Fed Com and not the Federated Suns any longer. Second of all if we are allied with them - why would we want to take them over. It would be really easy for the devs to make them a protectorate - and it would give us somewhere else to spank the Capellans.


EDIT - Thanks Sturm for backing me up on some of those examples. They really are different things. If the St. Ives Compact appeared as a rebellion during the timeline - fine. But as an established power for almost 20 years - they deserve a little more respect than that. Bottom line is this. Even if they shouldn't be independent - that there aren't enough people to play them - can we all agree that they at least shouldn't be part of the Capellan Confederation at the start of the game?

Edited by Listless Nomad, 23 January 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Adridos]

As much as I hate annexing someone without any means of defence, I think it is the best for them to join us. They would be alone between us and Davions and that would not mean any good.

[Listless Nomad]

Adridos, on 23 January 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

As much as I hate annexing someone without any means of defence, I think it is the best for them to join us. They would be alone between us and Davions and that would not mean any good.

Yes but we are allied with them - we would have no need to gobble them up - or make them part of the FedCom to start off. Please someone provide an argument about why it makes more sense for them to start off as capellan as opposed to FedCom.

PS - just as an aside I find it pretty funny that the majority of people that voted no for independence are Capellan affiliated .


Looks like the majority are now favoring independence. I'd love to get a larger sample size voting compared to the view counter.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 23 January 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[AdamBaines]

The major Periphery powers should be playable before the SIC, in my opinion. In the case of Canopus and the Taurians, they are larger or approaching the size of one of the so-called powers, House Liao. ;-)

Im not against the SIC having their own forums or even their own faction in game, but if the larger Periphery powers are not in, neither should the SIC.

As far as why the FRR is included has everything to do with the Clans as their invasion corridor is right though the heart of the FRR. As well as the fact that the FRR and the Nova Cats become one eventually. Its existence is very important to how the game will be played once the clans are introduced. You really cant say that about the SIC. The FRR was also part of the reborn Star League, and SIC was not. You have some internal struggles which, as you pointed out would but good for game play, but only for a small amount of time. Eventually they get swallowed up by the Cappies again.

Universe wise, the FRR has left a much larger footprint then the SIC.

[Listless Nomad]

AdamBaines, on 23 January 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

The major Periphery powers should be playable before the SIC, in my opinion. In the case of Canopus and the Taurians, they are larger or approaching the size of one of the so-called powers, House Liao. ;-)

Im not against the SIC having their own forums or even their own faction in game, but if the larger Periphery powers are not in, neither should the SIC.

As far as why the FRR is included has everything to do with the Clans as their invasion corridor is right though the heart of the FRR. As well as the fact that the FRR and the Nova Cats become one eventually. Its existence is very important to how the game will be played once the clans are introduced. You really cant say that about the SIC. The FRR was also part of the reborn Star League, and SIC was not. You have some internal struggles which, as you pointed out would but good for game play, but only for a small amount of time. Eventually they get swallowed up by the Cappies again.

Universe wise, the FRR has left a much larger footprint then the SIC.

I would not argue that the FRR deserves to be independent. The fervor and affection its people have for it has been evident in my dealings with them. You also make a good point that the FRR plays a much larger role in BT history overall than the SIC does. However, in the timeline we are playing in - the SIC was a huge weapon to use against the Capellans - and drove a lot of political decisions. I'd love for them to be independent if only for a role play perspective. If they get swallowed up - you could have a SIC in exile with players that would be looking to free their old worlds. It would add a new dynamic to the game. Also - based on what the devs have said about core worlds and the like - they could protect St. Ives and prevent it from being utterly destroyed. I am not so familiar with the periphery powers - so I will defer to you knowledge of them. My only counter argument would be that the Periphery powers played less of a political role than even the small SIC did. Also a SIC unit fought against the clans - which gives them a stake in this universe that periphery powers do not have. That being said - I would have no problem with their inclusion in the game (the big ones only) - to provide something else for the mercs to fight and defend their border worlds against. After all bandit hunting was how Phelan Kell got captured....